Latter-day Saints are not Christians any more than a person standing in McDonald’s is a hamburger.
Our first post of 2016 is going to get back to some early basics of R2 theology and the most basic of those basics is that a denomination cannot define a follower of Christ. I tweaked a quote from Keith Green from the message below.
Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Pentecostals, even Catholics mostly agree that they are all part of “the body” of Christ, yet most of them will claim that LDS goes too far with their Book of Mormon, and modern prophets. In reality all of them are just beating around the bush about the others and all of them harbor some pretty serious disputes with the others. Especially recently, as Franklin Graham diverges from the SBC and the GOP on abortion & immigration, as Presbyterian churches in droves flee their overseers over gay clergy, and the Methodists are on the edge of their seats wondering where their denomination is going to land on similarly divisive issues.
I’m no more a Mormon apologist than I am a Baptist apologist. We have shared frequently about idolizing the 1611 King James Bible, or any Bible. Today’s post is going to take that a step further, idolizing denominations.
Keith Green goes on to give his definition of “Christian” and it’s: “Someone who is bananas for Jesus.” While it may be “Army-of-God 301” level stuff to resist the temptation to start a “Bananas for Jesus” denomination, if I can resist it you can. In fact, if I can resist the urge to get all “sold-out” for some human pastor or denomination you can too.
This does not mean that the remnant of Christ cannot participate in many different denominations. There are parts of them all that are really worthy of respect. The Catholics and the LDS have taken strong positions of opposition to the issues that most protestants have surrendered almost without a fight. The protestants offer conformity but also appeal to younger “seekers”. If we look at these varying clergies (Ekklēsia) with Reformation 2.0 eyes we’re not looking to them to be “truth”, “perfect”, or “salvation”. We have that in Jesus Christ, with or without the denominations. The denominations only serve a governance role not so unlike secular government. A renewed mind can and should be able to distinguish these roles; Jesus & His kingdom, the world and its. Church buildings – no matter how beautiful – are still part of this world. Jesus’ temple is “Spirit and Truth” simple as that (John 4:24).
So true-believers, please snap out of it! A Mormon’s “magic underwear” are no more odd than a Catholic’s rosary beads, or a Baptist’s KJV (or the recently acceptable NKJV) tattered and torn but cherished as a relic of unnatural significance. Where did Jesus command the adoration of stained-glass? When did Jesus declare all worship must include colored lights, smoke machines, and “four-to-the-floor” percussion? At what point did he ordain the lavish display and wear of the method of His execution?
Don’t quit on me yet, I’m almost done. I have crosses around my house too. My point is, they have very little to do with Christ within me & Christ within me has everything to do with my Christianity. Unless someone hacks The Lamb’s Book of Life and leaks it online, we can and should be optimistically seeking out every brother and sister from every nation, denomination, and end-of-the-earth. That requires looking past the quirks of our preferences in worship and even our end-times theology.
Joseph Smith distinguished his followers by declaring that a vision proved to him that God was a flesh and blood distinct man. My own visions have contradicted that point rather strongly. Not only my personal experiences, but the scripture very consistently contradicts this point. Yet IMO scripture contradicts many things that others hold dear. Calvinism? Pre-Millennial-ism? Eternal security? … How dare I, or anyone presume to know whose names are in the Book of Life! It’s enough for you and I to “work out your salvation with fear and trembling” (Philippians 2:12).
It is indisputable that 2016 is as close to the end as we’ve ever been. There are many reasons today for the true-believing remnant of the brothers and sisters of Jesus to find and know each other. To allow iron to sharpen iron and to test the spirits. I’m not a Mormon, but every Mormon I’ve talked to has given little-to-no credence to the mainstream critiques of their faith. Most laugh off claims that Smith taught of 1000 year old Quakers living on the moon. Almost done…
Did you know that John Wesley believed that Mary was perpetually a virgin and that all churches should be octagons? He even had an electricity machine and thought that shocking himself was healthful. He was also an advocate for Montanism that we shared about here. Yet I haven’t known a Mormon that would be willing to ridicule Methodists (Wesley founded Methodism) the way Methodists ridicule the acts of Popes to Catholics. In fact, the constant persecution of LDS members by other “christian” denominations has kept them quite humble and that is something that the other denominations could use a lot more of.
I may never accept “spirit baby” theology, nor celestial marriage (especially considering Matthew 22:30), but I don’t see how that disqualifies Mormons from the Lamb’s Book of Life. Mormon marriages, on average, last longer than the other denominations. Any of them! Their average tithe is higher… Maybe legalism, maybe obedience. No matter what you think the fact is:
Baptists are not Christians…
Methodists are not Christians…
AG are not Christians…
CoG are not Christians…
Catholics are not Christians…
Muslims are not Christians…
Put whatever you want there… We are all nothing without Christ and anyone anywhere may already or may soon demonstrate that they have had their name in Jesus’ book all along…
…and standing in McDonald’s has never and will never turn a person into a hamburger.
Thank you for this article. I’m one of those strange people who wears the funny underwear, follows a prophet, reads and believes in the Book Of Mormon (don’t knock it till you’ve read it), and despite all criticism of my faith, I love Jesus with all my might, mind and strength. I am “bananas for Jesus”! He has blessed me temporally, and spiritually. He suffered and died for me. He offers his grace to me. He loves me. How can I not love and worship him? How can I not be a Christian when he is the most important part of my life?
I try not to criticize those of other faiths. Many are good people who are trying the same as I am to follow their Savior. How can I fault them for that?
Mormon theology states that Jesus is not THE Son of God, but rather a son of God, along with Satan and the rest of us.
Mormons denied the divinity of Christ and therefore are not Christians.
Does this prevent individual Mormons from being christian? Certainly not, but remaining in that church cannot help.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Mormons) doctrine is that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God. They (myself included) implore all people to come unto Christ, to follow Him, to love one another. It is only through Jesus Christ that we can be saved from death, and from sin. God loves ALL of his “children,” Christ his “only begotten,” and all of us, who are spiritually sons and daughters of God, and as who should treat each other with that much love and respect.
Mormon theology states that Jesus Christ is The Son of God, the only begotton of the Father. He is also a son of God as are all men and women, daughters of God. Your interpretation is incorrect. The doctrine is quite clear.
Ben, can you explain how Christians are” Christian” if they believe in the the Creeds of the Roman Catholic Church to determine the divinity of Christ? Men got together in Nicea in 325 A.D. with the pagan Constantine and decided that God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are one being, but three separate beings, but the same being in essence the Trinity. If that is true then Christ prayed to himself for comfort, it was really Jesus that decended as a dove at his baptism because Jesus is the Holy Ghost, Jesus actually said this is my beloved son at his baptism since he was talking to himself, on the cross Jesus really meant into my own hands I commend my spirit, Jesus must have dumped his body after the resurrection somewhere to go be with himself (the Father and Holy Ghost). At least Mormon’s don’t believe in the pagan catholic invention of Christ’s divinity. They stick with the bible and the earliest Christian writers. The theological definition of the Trinity didn’t exit until the 4th and 5th centuries (under catholic and pagan interpretation), so if Mormons are not “Christians” because of their denial of the trinity, then the apostles who wrote the New Testament and Christ’s followers for centuries after were not “Christians” either.
Jesus is the only begotten son of God, meaning the only one whos physical father is God the Father. So actually mormons do believe that Christ is the Son of God. But Christ tells us that all of us are sons and daughters of God. John 20:17 I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. Paul also tells us that God is the father of our spirits (which mormons believe and chirstians should believe if they read the bible) Hebrews 12:9.
Ben, have you read the Book of Mormon? Here is proof straight from the Book of Mormon that Mormons do not deny the divinity of Christ. It’s found in the first book of Nephi 13:40 “These records shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father, and the Savior of the world; and that all men must come unto him, or they cannot be saved.” If you’re going to make claims about mormons beliefs at least do some homework
I have to take issue with one of your claims. You stated that Mormons believe God is flesh and blood. That is incorrect. They believe God has a body of flesh and bone. No blood.
The Mormons love Christ just as much as you do, what an idiot!!!
Here’s a tough theological question, approve the comment and let the title-reader make a fool of himself, or take the high road and be assumed a censor? I erred on the side of liberty for now, but I’m pretty tempted to go the way of Shem and Japheth as I usually do with drunk and naked old people.
Too funny, I see you still haven’t covered his nakedness yet. More like Ham aren’t you?
Oh, that is a tough question, but IMO this was a good article, maybe the best yet from Les.
Maybe this is too Calvinist for you, but in Revelation it says that the names in the Lamb’s book of life are there since the beginning of creation.
Revelation 13:8
Actually, it doesn’t say that. Quoting from biblegateway.com (and I have a real life copy in hand as well)
“Revelation 13:8 New King James Version (NKJV)
8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”
Now it’s time to compare scripture.
Luke 11:50
“that the blood of all the prophets which was shed from the foundation of the world may be required of this generation,”
Foundation of the world = beginning of creation, ok, we agree there. But on what planet were hundreds of prophets slain in the beginning of creation? It didn’t happen. By saying from the beginning of creation, it is not saying that it is complete at creation, but from creation forwards until now, there have been prophets slain. And from creation forwards until now is the Book of Life being written in. No one would presume to tell me that all the prophets died in the creation of the world — there weren’t even prophets then because they weren’t needed, Adam and Eve met God personally.
The Book of Life is continually being written in as we speak. I encourage you to study your Bible carefully, and compare scripture with scripture.
Ah, you probably are referring to the ESV, but we don’t think it’s “too Calvinist”. Please let us know what you think of the change we made and thank you for contributing. These articles are not written in stone.